Curse

Silverblad3 · Nov 15, 2010, 02:45 PM // 14:45

There are more problems then just randomising teams after every win, which currently plagues the current format, apart from syncers.

If after every win, you have a random team you are likely at some point to be on a team with 2-3 monks. This would wreck a good run for something that you have no control over.

I suggest two solutions to solve the sync problem that will allow teams to possibly get a good team, without poeple having to leave because you have 2-3 monks, 1 tard who cannot play or thinks its funny to run around with no armor.

1. Randomise the list of players after the timer OR
2. After the 2nd win, your team stays together.

If you also sort out the rewards this will stop people raging, leaving and just getting frustrated with dealing with bad players.

The solution to CB just wrecked it, it was a crap fest and whilst I managed to repeatedly get more than 10 consecs, carrying bad players, dealing with leavers, or players who have no clue about tactical play or following targets, with little or no team work just ruined what was a great format.

Silver

Jade Zephyr · Nov 15, 2010, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Good idea, I actually like it and it sounds very reasonable to me.

thedukesd · Nov 15, 2010, 03:00 PM // 15:00

@Pthoms T well if the other team has 4 members and they all resign in the first 30-45 seconds (I don't really have info about the usual match lenght or the fastest win obtained by fighting so not sure if it should be more or less then 30-45s) the team winning cause the other team resigned should not receive points for wining. (The alternative of this will be to check if one full team resigned before actually doing/receiving damage to/from any member of the other team.)
Also not always you find people that resign... Sometimes you see them starting to run (probably in the idea that the other team will lose some members) even when it's clear that it's a lost game if he manage to survive until the end of match time.

Cool Name · Nov 15, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedukesd

If posible please merge this with the thread suggested by drkn.

@Pthoms T well if the other team has 4 members and they all resign in the first 30-45 seconds (I don't really have info about the usual match lenght or the fastest win obtained by fighting so not sure if it should be more or less then 30-45s) the team winning cause the other team resigned should not receive points for wining. (The alternative of this will be to check if one full team resigned before actually doing/receiving damage to/from any member of the other team.)
Also not always you find people that resign... Sometimes you see them starting to run (probably in the idea that the other team will lose some members) even when it's clear that it's a lost game if he manage to survive until the end of match time.

They could do this but then you could probably get around it by doing any kind of damage, and then resigning.

Also, I think the idea is flawed. It would be much too easy to get glad points this way. It would be more than 5 times as easy, much more. To get 5 points your team does need to have some sort of skill. To get to 10 or above your team does need to be competent, which is, imo, what makes this title more prestigious. If your idea were true even the worst pvp player in guild wars could get glad points, which isn't how it should be.

PVP titles should be different from PVE. They should require you to be good at it, not to grind it. This is why I don't think zaishen should be a pvp title. Although even if they made the keys customized and only avaliable through balth faction, you could still grind it.

helloeveryone · Nov 15, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

/sign

this is a good idea by OP
this is random arena, make every victory counts as a win and be rewarded.

the last time i gotten 10 consec wins, is by players leaving and new players coming in and leave again, by the time i have gotten 10 wins, none of my team members are those that i had originally began with.

i dun think it will become a red resign arena. if i am red, no way i will resign

sometimes it makes no sense that having spending 3-4 hours in RA with more than 30 wins and yet i gotten no points there wasn't any 5 consec
and having gotten 3 points off 10 consec wins when the other players are those that joins in after someone leaves in the previous match lolz

mage767 · Nov 15, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Why you shouldn't play RA:
1. The gladiator title is extemely pointless. It has no emotes and no tangible/intangible benefits.
2. Instead of bringing the casual people to come and enjoy, it invites the nerds over.
If one player runs his own gimmick, the other 3 nerds will call him a noob and force him to leave. The nerds are ready to battle 2-4 hrs straight if the need be.
3. Suck up to the syncing system that is still exploited by guilds to ease point generation.

When should you play RA:
1. During PvP Zaishen days - at least you can gain some Balthazar faction which can be exchanged for Z-keys and finally GW cash.

/signed OP ideas, but GW1 PvP is already dead, ANET doesn't want to update RA rules or current exploits, and HoM doesn't make RA mandatory. So why care at all?

Missing HB · Nov 15, 2010, 04:35 PM // 16:35

/signed

It would fix everything , and people wouldn't do red resign, simply because you won't have 4 players that will do it everytime.And , finally we would have a PvP format where you can play and not waste time when dead hour...

However ,every format has solutions that were suggested many times and it probably won't be done because :
- They don't care at all of PvP if not GvG , especially of RA.
- Although they did the same for AB players , it would not be really fair for people who did get their title after 5 years of pain in RA .

Cool Name · Nov 15, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

/notsigned

Already commented above but I have something else to add. As I said above, this would completely diminish the title. It would not require any skill, and pvp should. It is the only competitive aspect of GW. If you're doing it this way then screw points. Just have the title based on time spent in RA and forget all about it.

Finally, to the person who said they'd gone 3-4 hours without any points, you must be doing something wrong.

Swahnee · Nov 15, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverblad3

2. After the 2nd win, your team stays together.

Uhm..I don't understand this. Does it mean that you play the first match, win it, party gets randomized, play the second match, win it too, stay with your new teammates? But then your new teammates maybe aren't playing their second consecutive too. Do you keep the team together if just one of them as won at least 2 consecutives?

Shayne Hawke · Nov 15, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pthoms T

I have seen a few discussions within topics on this subject. People have thought of your idea and similar ideas but there is one problem with it: "Red resigns"

Start point gain at zero for the first match. Add one for each next consecutive. There is no longer a reliable way to win your points through RR.

CRISIS AVERTED

cantalus · Nov 15, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Why you shouldn't play RA:
1. The gladiator title is extemely pointless. It has no emotes and no tangible/intangible benefits.
2. Instead of bringing the casual people to come and enjoy, it invites the nerds over.
If one player runs his own gimmick, the other 3 nerds will call him a noob and force him to leave. The nerds are ready to battle 2-4 hrs straight if the need be.
3. Suck up to the syncing system that is still exploited by guilds to ease point generation.

When should you play RA:
1. During PvP Zaishen days - at least you can gain some Balthazar faction which can be exchanged for Z-keys and finally GW cash.

/signed OP ideas, but GW1 PvP is already dead, ANET doesn't want to update RA rules or current exploits, and HoM doesn't make RA mandatory. So why care at all?

so why do you comment at all, looking through you're input in guru it seems that you're a pver, you appear to only do things that have a "point" seem also that RA players are nerds as far as you're concerned, not like pve players who are....title grind complainers who once in a while lose a godmode, why would you be interested in RA....

i'm g5, all from RA, all in the last two years, with no syncing, and frankly not seeing much evidence of syncing, the odd team yes, but even then it seems to be pvers who seem to have little idea what the "nerds" know, like why having superior fire isn't good, why tactics shields on wars equals leave, why people with one class equal leave, etc etc

RA is irritating most of the time, i mostly practice typing /resign, but syncing isn't the problem

oh, and isn't pve really pointless and stupefyingly dull as well

unsigned

Cool Name · Nov 15, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Start point gain at zero for the first match. Add one for each next consecutive. There is no longer a reliable way to win your points through RR.

CRISIS AVERTED

Oh right I see. So you can only get points if you continuously carry your whole team? OP made this suggestion because it's difficult to get continous wins with a nooby team. It would be even more difficult to get continuous wins if when you finally got a good team it was reshuffled.

Seriously, your idea is bad. Getting points would be even more based on luck (of getting good teams consecutively). It might allow you to get points faster but it would make it a complete grindfest. If you want to grind then just do pve and buy your zaishen title, instead of complaining about a format of play that requires skill.

Sethellington · Nov 15, 2010, 05:44 PM // 17:44

I'm actually quite surprised at my self liking the idea. Don't really see anything wrong with it, it embraces the Random aspect better to be honest!

/signed

drkn · Nov 15, 2010, 05:44 PM // 17:44

One reshuffle after the first match + the first point got after second consec, aka with the new team that stays with you. You get one point for wins 2-7, two points for 8-14, and so on - just a raw example. GW1 isn't dead, but the population is smaller than it used to be; with the HoM update, PvE has some revival and people playing PvE get into RA as 'casual format', making net gain for a dedicated RAer - however it sounds - much harder than it should be.
Syncers killed out, RR not viable, the possibility of getting a decent team preserved, Glad title made easier to achieve (or, at least, advance in).
No need of reshuffling your team every fight, no need to start points gain after the first fight (with the 'prelude team', as it will be reshuffled for a new, stable one).

Swahnee · Nov 15, 2010, 05:50 PM // 17:50

/signed

I see RA as a starting ground for new pvp players, not as a place where to earn some prestigious title to show off. IMHO, if someone wants to be considered a good pvp player, he should start doing HA or GvG and make himself known among the community: titles say little about someone's skill, in my opinion.

Also, boosting your glad rank is another form of grinding, no matter how you look at it, it boils down to repeating the same thing over and over, so i don't think that it really shows how much a player is skilled. Maybe a better information would be the glad points/hours of RA playing ratio, which would make you understand how fast someone has been able to achieve his title, and thus how many long strikes of victories he managed to make. If you see two people with g6, maybe the second one has obtained it in 4x the time needed by the first one: you can reach g6 (as whatever else) winning no more than 5 consecs each time, you only need a lot more time.

So, i think that the notion of "title" and the notion of "skill" should be kept separated, this is why i see every title only as a mean to attract people, and to give them some little sense of accomplishment, before they realize how good is to play for the fun of playing, or move on after becoming bored.

OT, I think that a change like this will help bringing new people into RA, and maybe some of them will like it and will try to move on to something more complex. This will mean that there will be more "noobs" in RA, yes, but in my opinion this is what RA was made for.

EDIT: i like drkn's suggestion too, maybe it's even better because it allows you to keep playing with a team you are comfortable with.

drkn · Nov 15, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Uhm..I don't understand this. Does it mean that you play the first match, win it, party gets randomized, play the second match, win it too, stay with your new teammates?

Exactly. This is what i propose in various topics for a month or two now.

Quote:

But then your new teammates maybe aren't playing their second consecutive too. Do you keep the team together if just one of them as won at least 2 consecutives?

Yep, you keep playing. I had a situation when a necromancer had to leave after 15th consec due to some RL issues. We got an ele in his place, with 0 consecs. The team was still strong enough to get up to 25 consecs, yet the ele had 10 and, after the 'original team' left cause of getting 25, the ele got shuffled into another team.
That is an issue that lies deep in the format's mechanics and, as i see it, nothing can be done to it, at least not without revamping most of the RA coding. Which isn't something we want at this point of the game - we just to get it fair and easier for people interested in their Glad title, so they're not spoiled by random idiots running RoJ that much.

e: To avoid constant changes in one spot, which after a second thought is possible, the party leader's consecs may decide whether any reshuffling takes place or not. Or the reshuffle might be done from the pool of players that won once already.

Cool Name · Nov 15, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

One reshuffle after the first match + the first point got after second consec, aka with the new team that stays with you. You get one point for wins 2-7, two points for 8-14, and so on - just a raw example. GW1 isn't dead, but the population is smaller than it used to be; with the HoM update, PvE has some revival and people playing PvE get into RA as 'casual format', making net gain for a dedicated RAer - however it sounds - much harder than it should be.
Syncers killed out, RR not viable, the possibility of getting a decent team preserved, Glad title made easier to achieve (or, at least, advance in).
No need of reshuffling your team every fight, no need to start points gain after the first fight (with the 'prelude team', as it will be reshuffled for a new, stable one).

This is a much better idea.

Swahnee · Nov 15, 2010, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Would you also keep the 25 victory cap or make it like you go on playing until you lose? There have to be some way of stopping very strong teams, though. If this is the case, however, and you give points only at fixed numbers of wins (being them 5, or 3 or whatever) doesn't the problem you are talking about still exist? When the player with the highest number of wins gets to the cap, everybody is sent back to the outpost even if some party member hasn't reached the threshold for gaining points yet. Maybe you want to give one point for each win after the first, so everybody earns what he deserves?

Morphy · Nov 15, 2010, 08:13 PM // 20:13

/notsigned

Remember what that did to costume brawl?

Gennadios · Nov 15, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

One reshuffle after the first match + the first point got after second consec, aka with the new team that stays with you. You get one point for wins 2-7, two points for 8-14, and so on - just a raw example. GW1 isn't dead, but the population is smaller than it used to be; with the HoM update, PvE has some revival and people playing PvE get into RA as 'casual format', making net gain for a dedicated RAer - however it sounds - much harder than it should be.
Syncers killed out, RR not viable, the possibility of getting a decent team preserved, Glad title made easier to achieve (or, at least, advance in).
No need of reshuffling your team every fight, no need to start points gain after the first fight (with the 'prelude team', as it will be reshuffled for a new, stable one).

I like this idea much better, there's absolutely no reason to be giving out points after the first win.

I assume the first round is just there to weed out the sucky noobs, IE the no secondary Orison Monks and the Defy Pain/Healing Breeze warrs, who will have a very small chance of surviving past the second round, even if they make it that far. If that's the case the majority of RA suckage will be collecting at round 1.